Present: Hermione Thornhill (chair); Tracy Millar (taking minutes); Nina Stevens; Anthony Hermer; Jeff Thomas; Taiwo Afuape; Karin Sjostrom; Joanna Pearce; Tamsin Black; Linda Fernando; Jay Watts; Esther McCalden; Kirsty Juby; Rosanna Cavallo; Ange Drinnan; Jan Hollway; Des Gaynor; Andrew Graham; Bipasha Ahmed; Paula Reavey; Katherine Johnson; Debbie Murphy; Sarah Rasch; Dave Harper

Statement on compulsory treatment in the community/ CTOs: There was a discussion about this during which several points were raised:

• That the statement should support the notion that Compulsory treatment should not be an option if the person can say 'no' to treatment.

• That compulsory treatment should not be used if a person has capacity to say or show that they do not wish to be treated.

• That compulsory treatment can harm people and make recovery much more difficult (eg taking 20 years rather than 2-3)
• That there is a need for outlining what positive alternative (eg non-medical) services might look like (eg crisis houses)
• That the statement was trying to achieve a brief, focused articulation of what the group is supporting and that it was difficult to include everything

• That there were occasions when a person who was acutely unwell might say "no" to a treatment, but in retrospect, might feel they should have said "yes".
• This raised the issue of what services people might want and what role 'advance directives' might play
• Other important issues included how informed people were about their treatment, their rights and the side effects.

• It was agreed that the statement was against CTO's as they were currently formulated.

What is the most effective use of the statement? It was felt that the timing for publishing / or making public the statement was important - in order to have maximum impact and maximum media coverage. As mental health legislation has been a low priority in the media recently, it was felt that submitting it to newspapers etc might not be useful. Discussion also included thinking about whom the group was aiming to target. For example should we be thinking about targeting mental health professionals and service users/survivors? Particularly in light of equivocal statements by some groups about CTO's . Other suggestions included:

- Sending a summary of our main points to local MP's / MP's who have an interest in mental health issues

- Contacting journalists who have an interest in mental health issues

- Considering broadsheets other than the Guardian

- Contacting other mental health publications, for example Openmind, Asylum.

- Contacting GP's

Report from the demonstration held on the 09/07/01: A demonstration was held outside the Royal College of Psychiatrists (RCP) annual conference and outside the Association for the British Pharmaceutical Industry headquarters. This was both to protest against the pharmaceutical industry's financial support and sponsorship of Psychiatry and against the proposals to treat people in the community (CTO). Around 20-30 people attended but there was excellent media coverage. The demonstration was covered by Newsroom Southeast on BBC1, there was a news story in the Guardian on the letter written to John Cox, the President of the Royal College, by Phil Thomas and Pat Bracken. BBC Radio London Live interviewed Simon Barnett from Mad Pride in the morning and Rufus May at lunch time. Rufus also featured in an article with The Big Issue. Both the Nursing Standard and Mental Health Media were covering the demonstration. Further action might follow if John Cox replied to Phil and Pat's letter. If anyone hears of other events which it might be useful to participate in, please inform the group.

Mental Health and the media: There had been much interest in targetting the meeting following the discussion triggered by Diana Rose's talk. One suggestion was to form a sub-committee of the group to target the media though it was noted that other groups (eg Mental Health Media) were also doing some of this work. It was agreed to discuss this at the next meeting when news of other initiatives could be pooled and this idea could be explored further.

Politics Psychology Resistance (PPR) meeting 'Asylum in 21^st Century' Manchester 14 July, Bastille Day: This event was discussed. Several members were going. PPR was re-launched in Manchester several years ago to challenge the orthodox view of psychology and explore the abuses of psychology. Those attending the meeting agreed to feed back at the next.

Topics for discussion in future groups: There was some discussion about potential future topics:

• What has worked for people in their personal experience of recovery and what has not been helpful. For example, Jeff Thomas shared the idea of 'time-sharing'. In the Summer 2001 issue of Voices Magazine he describes it thus: Time sharing is based on the idea that some of us have developed two sides to our brains -- like having two drivers in a car. We drive all the time and never let the other driver have a go. He/she is so frustrated that he/she drives us mad with voices. The answer is to let the other driver in it have a go at driving: that means letting your other side take possession and full control of your whole body for a short time. One hour a day was quite enough to keep my other half happy and silent. Some people find that letting their other half in is by no means easy. The best way is to lie down, relax completely and invite the other side to take over. These discussions might also include workers sharing strategies that they have seen work for people.

• Rachel Perkins' suggestion to invite Liz Sayce to talk about the social model of disability was noted. This which emphasises that the problem facing people with mental health problems is discrimination.

• What alternative services might look like and what alternative services are available.

• A discussion about 'madness and creativity'.

• A discussion about the advantages and disadvantages of Assertive Outreach

It was agreed that the next session would focus on individual strategies that people have found helpful - it was suggested that this take place in a small group format.

• Should we be writing up our discussions and publishing them in, for example Openmind - particularly if there is a theme?.

• A representative from the Independent Newham Users Forum asked if the minutes from this group could be circulated to them. There was no objection.

• The group would like to thank Hermione for chairing the group and Tracy for doing the minutes.